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Name: Sucha Singh Bains
PA Number: PA2671/4/3
Ref: C2C/071005/INT/46
Date of interview: 7 October 2005
Date of Birth: 8 December 1935
Origin: Dadyal, Hoshiarpur, Punjab, India
Gender: Male
Religion: Sikh
Caste: Jat
Came to England: 1959
Came to Coventry: September 1959
Language of Interview: English
Timing: 13.23-14.18
My name is Sucha Bains.
08/12/1935.
Where were you born?
I was born in the village Dadyal, District Hoshiarpur, Punjab.
13.23
What is your religion and caste?
Jat, Sikh.
When did you migrate to Coventry?
September 1959.
And could you tell us some of the reasons why you came here?
I came as a student to enhance my education.
13.24
What did you do here?
When I came here in September it was too late to join college. Second year straight away I enrolled in college it used to be called Institute of Costs and Works Accounts, at that time the National Institute of Costs and Work Account for industry.
In Coventry?
13.25
When this college opened there was a group of us who were the first year student intake.
Really?
1959, no 1960.
It must have been an interesting time
Yes at the time I was alone, my brother's wife, she actually came with me. He was here. I had no problem. Cooking, washing those sorts of things so I could afford to spend time in education.
So when did your brother come here?
He came in 1949. I was in the eighth class.
13.26
What was he doing here?
He worked in a factory. Sterling Metals in the start and then the GEC and then Peugeot.
What was your brother's name?
Amar Singh, but he died.
Did he know anyone in Coventry before or did he first come?
Yes one of our uncle's sons was here so he joined him here. Even he was here before Bhar (India's partition). A long time ago. I think 1930, 1935, something like that Tara Singh.
So you had strong family links
13.27
He was in Coventry so my brother joined him.
So were there any other Asian students at the Lancaster in the first year?
No there wasn't any. I was the only one at Lancaster in the first year.
What was that like? Do you remember? Did you feel that people treated you differently?
There wasn't difference as in India or here in Education. Actually when I came here I went to see the Director of Education, at the time. I made an appointment with him to get advice from him. He suggested to me, I was thinking to go for engineering. I was a mathematician in India. He suggested accountancy as it was such a profession there would be a demand all the time.
13.28
There would always be a shortage so rather than going for engineering. Engineering will take longer time, it's easy to do that one and you can earn money same time as getting the qualification.
So you were living here with your brother at the time?
Yes always, my brother.
Where?
Hastings Road, over there a small house, a two bedroom house where I joined him - Hasting Road. Afterwards 1960 we bought another house that was a much bigger house.
Where was that?
That was in Tennyson Road. Are you local? Do you know that area, (13.29) Longfellow Road, Tennyson Road and Burns Road.
So you bought that house in 1960?
1961 - 1962 I don't remember the exact we sold the house and went over there that was quite a big house.
So when you first came to England, did you come by plane or ship?
I came by ship
What was that journey like? It was the first time you had left India
At that, time there was a lot of young people came on that ship. I caught a boat from Cochin it was quite an adventure at the time. You are young you enjoy every journey. It took nearly 12 days in the ship.
It must have taken you a few days from the Punjab to get to Cochin?
13.30
It took us two days and one night.
What was the trip like? What other sort of people did you meet on the boat?
There were a lot of Italian people there. That boat normally used to come from Australia to Naples in Italy. We left the boat in Naples and then came by train though Italy and France to England. It was, we catch a boat from actually we came to Dover, which was a boat in France Calais from Calais to Dover. We came by boat again.
What were your first impressions of England when you came here? I mean Sept. sort of Autumn
13.31
Everything is in your blood and you do feel a little bit home sick, but when I came I didn't have any difficulties as if I came alone and there isn't anybody, then I have to think about cooking myself and washing my clothes and that sort of things. I had no problem at that time.
So did your brother come and pick you from there or did you make your own way?
He came to Dover
And when you first arrived in Coventry what did you think?
It was night time when we came here.
So you didn't see much?
Not much on that day.
So you started your education straight away?
13.32
Like I told you I missed my first year it was a bit late I took advice I needed to feel something for the country if I was going to stay here or go back. So I had a break about 9 months and then joined.
Did you work?
Yes I worked. First I worked in a store in town, there was a lot of people were coming over and they couldn't speak English, read and write. I was one of the few that could speak and write English, so I got a job in a store.
Where were you working?
Alfred Herbert
What were you doing there?
Just issuing stuff and putting them in bins.
What was that like?
Sometimes it didn't used to be a clean job, sort of thing (13.33) although it was much easier than other peoples jobs but you feel it. I had done a masters degree in India, before I came here. You felt why did I come here sort of thing at that time.
Because you were well educated?
I could have gone straight into teaching I had taught for nearly 9 months in Punjab University.
In Chandigarh or?
Hoshiarpur, when India split East of Punjab side there wasn't any other buildings where the university could be located. So the university split up, administration went to 'Solan' and all professional institutes gone. One engineering college went to Rurki, a second went to Jullundar (13.34), all academics to Horshiarbard the biggest government college in East Punjab, and so all the academic subjects came to Hoshiarpur. What used to be known as Punjab University always at the time now Government College at the time its name changed to Punjab University.
Now you have Chandigarh, Patiala.
Well Chandigarh actually started in 1957-58 they started to build when I was still in Hoshiarpur, when some of the departments the university education department building was getting ready. 13.35
It was the last one the last batch to move to Chandigarh.
Interesting times
Still Chandigarh was not built so quickly people didn't believe that 'Kairo' chief minister of Punjab and he was offering you in the villages to come just deposit £100 rupees for a plot and you build a building. At the time people didn't have 100 rupees. It was very difficult how people do it. People didn't believe in him that Chandigarh it was going to be successful. It was successful.
Even though you were quite successful education, teaching you still thought you would have better opportunities in UK.
13.36
At the time when we came over here we hadn't thought anything. We were thinking, we told our mother and father we will be going for 3 or 4 years. If we didn't like it, we'll be back. We never thought more than that.
So it was just a chance.
So just a chance.
So just a chance to see what happens? Can you tell me a little bit how you went from education to your jobs once you finished your education at Lancaster? What did you do?
I worked straight away after I passed straight away. I passed part 1 and 2 together within 1 sitting. Normally it was you were supposed to do one part then second (13.37) there were 4 parts, I did in one year 2 parts the following year I applied for a job. It was very difficult at the time to get job. When you don't have experience and you are at the age of 25 and you want to do clerical jobs. People at the time never believed that they would be able to do it. But I got, there was one officer in Jaguar that forced the other people that you have to give him the job, let us try. So I got the job in Jaguar. Actually at the time I applied for three jobs, all three people offered me the job.
You applied for Jaguar.
Jaguar, GEC and one there was other factory but I started with Jaguar (13.58) 1962 as a clerical.
1962 - Can you tell us a little bit about that job?
That was just accountancy just to do cost buses, to cost cars. When production comes when different parts the spare parts for cars for putting prices on, at the time there wasn't any computer any calculators. At the time they used to have 50 girls comp operators they used to put their finger in it like that, multiply six you had to press 5-6 times, you used to.
If you had to add 5 you had to list down and put the prices on (13.39) and give to the girls they used to do the calculations and add, then bring the report back and after that the calculators came then we had a calculator on our desk and do our own calculations.
Made life easier.
Not easier all those comp girls lost their jobs, they gone somewhere. Then computers came.
Were there any other Asians working there?
In Jaguar, in the factory side there were a lot of Asians working there.
Manual work?
Yes in manual work there wasn't anybody in the office. People used to look at me strangely at the time. When I used to go to the factory find information from the managers and supervisors (13.40) there was a lot of things coming from there you can't read them little slips and that sort of things. If you can't read them you have used to go there, ask them what number, this sort of information. People used to look in surprise, they only knew my brothers name. They didn't know me, they used to say Amba's brother. Amar Singh's brother.
Your brother was working there as well?
No he wasn't, he worked in Sterling Metals. He was here a long time people knew him.
What was the pay like at Jaguar?
My first pay was started at £17 a week.
£17 a week?
Yes £17 a week.
That was good money for then
Yes, that was good money at the time
That was good money
I worked in Jaguar until 1968 then I left and went to Doughty. A group of companies. Doughty group based in Cheltenham now.
What do they do?
They produce aeronautical stuff, mining stuff, hydraulic pumps, and seals. They have a group of so many different companies. I worked with them for 18 years from 68 until 20 years 88.
13.42
What were you doing for them?
I was a section leader; they used to have a different production line in the centre. There was a machine tool side. I was section leader on those accounts in control.
Did you enjoy that?
Yes, it was busy.
Used to be heavy snow. No cars, you had to either walk or use buses.
Where were their offices?
You go to Bedworth, there is a bridge underneath on this side there is so many small units now. Used to be one Doughty factory there. Quite a huge place there. Now it is converted into small units.
And you lived?
13.43
When I got married in 1964 we bought another house 'Dane Road'. Ever since I've lived in Dane Road.
So you used to go from Dane Road to. How did you travel there by bus, cycle?
By bus, cycle then car. 1972 I bought a car.
At the time people used to send money back to their families, did you ever do that?
Only little bit, actually we were not, our family wasn't so bad. Sometimes mother, nephew they ask, we haven't send much to people.
13.44
Relations different relations helping family, sister.
It wasn't a big priority for you.
We sent sometimes happily sort of thing there wasn't any pressure on us. We never thought about buying land. So a lot of people around were thinking to buy land.
What was, if we can talk a little bit about home life? What were houses like when you first came here?
When I first came here, we used to go to town for a bath. If you worked an extra 4 hours on Saturday morning you would come home then go to have a bath once a week. You know Priory Street, Cathedral Lane (13.45) near the university there used to be baths there. After having a bath we used to go to town to do shopping.
Did you have to queue up?
That was on Saturdays I don't remember much. After 2 - 3 years then we had a bath in home
Initially, no bath before.
There wasn't any bath you used go to toilet out side, there used to be heavy snow all the time. No snow nowadays not much there was to be.
Coal fires
I remember in 68 when I joined Doughty that year in February there was so much snow, so heavy that year everybody had to leave their cars, walk back home to Dane Road.
Walked all the way
13.46
Everyone walked at the time. I wasn't the only one.
How long did that take you?
About one hour, that sort of thing. There, nobody could use there cars, if they used their cars they would get stuck.
What did you think of snow when you first saw it?
We enjoyed it. When you are young you don't feel much you just enjoy it. Different play around although I'd seen snow in Simla a couple of times but not like that, here staying a long time.
It used to be bad here, very cold
I used to be very cold.
What did you do for shopping and things like that, getting food?
13.47
My Missus did it, before that, my sister-in-law did it.
What sort of Indian shops were there? Were there many when you came here?
There were only one or two shops, Indian shops. At the time food wasn't available as now in abundance there wasn't as many Indians.
Do you remember where the shops were?
One was, one in Chester Street very few Asian spices, used to be some vegetables like (13.48) aubergines (bengan). Not many at the time there was another shop, you know the Swanswell pub, that, that road towards the hospital there used to be a shop there. It was Gej Shanker.
Did you ever go there yourself?
Yes for fun, we used to go there on Sunday. We used to have a meal, my brother used to enjoy having a few pints (14.49) and we used just walk over to the city the pair of us and meeting people.
So what did you do for your social, life you mentioned going to the pub?
At the weekend we used to go the pub not normally during the week days, only if some friends.
At the weekend you used to go.
We used to go on Saturday nights go to the pubs to the town.
13.50
Our social life, most of our social life we used to go to every Sundays pictures, sometimes the Temple. I don't go much to Temple, sometimes our friends used to come to our house over the weekend and sometimes we used to go over there. It is a strange thing people our community has established here. The host community has accepted the Asian people here, now the refugee and those people come I feel at the time (13.51) our condition was exactly the same. We didn't used to have many social places where we meet; we either had pubs or assemble in one house. The host community, people used to think so many people live here in one house, so many people used to live there, they used to assemble one night. They always live in this one house. That you feel when see all these people assemble or meet each in one place they used to meet in Broadgate. We used to go to town and meet each other.
A similar sort of pattern, which pubs did you used to go to?
Different pubs, sometimes in Foleshill area sometimes in Hastings.
(13.52)
You had no problems in pubs. There wasn't any pubs where they didn't like Asian people going?
I haven't had any problems with pubs, but there was, Rose and Crown, I heard I never went there General Wolfe one pub, I never went there. There was one room Asian people were not allowed to go there at one time. As I have been union member for a long time working with unions. We had one club 'Barras Green Social Club. Have you heard the history of that club?
A little bit.
That was so racist they did not allow black people to even sing there or to play, if a black community player (13.53) came to play there for darts match.
Was this in the 60's or 70's?
This was in the 70's. And we started to do picketing. We picketed in front of the club. The unions used to bring there was Asian Union, TGWU there members to picket not to go in there. Eventually the club closed, it went bankrupt. Then it stayed closed for a long time, then we bought it. Monatrabad was with us and he allowed every one to come there. So every community used to come there. People were so happy that we reopened the same club. It was very successful. We were not allowed to go there at one time.
13.54
I used to have an argument with the Labour party, they used to have a monthly meeting there, and once I went there I found out that this club was so racist, and the Labour party should not have any. So I argued with the Labour party why you. They said that you are with us and they will give you a drink. I said 'No' I don't want a drink I want other people to come in to become members here. You shouldn't have your meeting here. If you have the meeting I will not come to attend the meeting, I will leave the Labour party.
When did you join the Labour party?
A long time, a long time 1961 - 62
Quite soon after you came?
Yes, that was a sort of funny thing I used to live in Hasting Road, the school was not far away in Britain Road. Richard Crossman he was a minister (13.55) of the Labour government he was our M.P. in North East. He had a meeting there and I went there as I hadn't joined the Labour party at the time. After the meeting, he started talking to me and he said why don't you join us. I said I was a member of the Indian Communist party at the time but I was supporting them. I was thinking on there line. But here I joined the Labour party first. 3 -4 years I was very active because I didn't have any children so I was very active, then when children come you have to work overtime to get money.
13.56
So were you quite politically active in India?
You can't say politically, I was general secretary of Punjab University. You can be general secretary of Punjab University student union only for one year. One person can become general secretary of Punjab University. So I was the General Secretary. If some student got a problem. Actually, at that time there wasn't many problems, the education system was such it was very strict there wasn't any problems.
13.57
What sort of things did you do with the Labour party? When you were active here?
First few years dishing out leaflets, going with them, asking people which party they supporting that sort of thing.
Canvassing
Then I slowed down, then we bought the club, when my children grew up, then I became active again.
Were you supportive or a member of the IWA?
Oh yes, that is the basic thing I believe in IWA work. I've been a member a member since. I am still an executive member of the IWA. That's the organisation that has done so much for the Asian working class people here.
13.58
Even though they have slowed down now, but at that time we used to take coaches. The Sikh Temples used to provide the food, pay the money for the coaches. Any immigration problem any racial problem, we used to go to London march with banners.
I think Raj was showing me a film of when you went there to London.
We used to go there quite often once, twice a year. At the time, the Sikh Temple contributed quite a lot for those sorts of things. They used to give money. They used to announce if people could go with us. They used to provide the food even.
I think they did a lot during the miners strike as well.
13.59
Ever since, this Khalistan movement came and then it stopped.
It changed after that. How did you, obviously you had a interest in politics from the beginning
I had an interest when India was split I was deadly against religion.
1947
Yes, I was 11 years old at the time.
But your family had always belonged to Hoshiarpur, they didn't migrate?
All the time.
How did you think, we would like you to tell us a little about how you became Lord Mayor. Because I think you are the first Asian Lord Mayor (14.00) in Coventry.
To become Lord Mayor first you need to be a councillor. It was the Labour party policy for long time, established. Those people who are the longest serving councillor, his turn come to become a Lord Mayor. I was councillor for 14 years so it was my turn, came as a Lord Mayor. Still the same policy for the number of services, if you have been Lord Mayor you are out of the list. Because there are so many councillors who haven't done longer services, amongst those who haven't become Lord Mayor yet. Amongst them there is a line of seniority and you become senior and your turn. If there are two member councillors who served the same length of time they negotiate between themselves, you become Lord Mayor this year and I'll become next year. Otherwise there will be voting in the group, if they both say I want to be Lord Mayor this year. Then voting if this year and next year the other one will become Mayor.
So you have been serving this council for 14 years.
Yes, 14 years and became Lord Mayor.
And what was it like? How did you feel? Representing your community, like that.
I felt proud, representing the community and 80's our second generation coming up and they were very successful our kids are very successful and our community are so hard working, they are established. I feel proud to represent Asian community as well as the host community as well.
Do you think the things in Coventry in terms of the community integrating? How do you see Coventry changing in that time from when you came here late 50's?
Coventry has always been accepting the other people. In Coventry if you see people come from religions all castes all corners of the world people in Coventry. The host community have got the feeling like to adopt everybody accept although some people (14.03) they do, but the majority of the people are nice in Coventry. It has changed drastically, mixed each other.
When we came, we used to cook onions and they used to say, nasty smell coming in. Now our food, Asian food is the most popular. All the Asian restaurants not run by for our people they run for the host community. Our people don't use them; people say they can cook better at home.
So did you have that at the time when cooking and neighbours was going on, would complain about the smells?
They used to, feeling like that was some people would say that's a nice smell. Sometimes the neighbours would say what a nice smell.
14.04
Quite a new thing
Cooking onions
And garlic, ginger.
Especially green Dhania (coriander) that used to create a strong smell.
That's why it's got to their hearts through the food.
14.05
Actually my wife's father and my brother and my brother they were friends. So my wife joined her mother died long time ago, her mother with her sister here. They were friends so you can call it engaged. I seen my wife.
Her family lived here in Coventry, or some where else?
Yes, their family lived here in Coventry. My father-in-law died, but my two brother-in-laws have gone to Canada. My sister-in-law my wife's youngest baby sister (14.06) also gone to Canada.
So where did you get married, when?
1964. I was married in a school.
Which school?
In Swan Lane, Frederick Birds the old school there.
That's where you got married.
There wasn't a Temple at that time. People used to bring the Holy book, bring the Holy book to the school. Not many people.
How many people at the wedding?
20. The story is in India people used to waste a lot of money on weddings, dowry.
14.07
Our group a lot of my friends, we believed not to spend a lot of money not to bring Janeth, (grooms family/friends) so many people so to bring one or two people. My father-in-law said how many are coming I said me and my brother will come. He said it doesn't look nice so I said maximum 4 -5 people will come, otherwise no I'm sorry.
I will tell you a story in India I was doing my masters degree, one of my friends never told us he's going to. He was in Jullundar I was in Hoshiarpur, one evening he asked me, 'will you please come to Jullundar and my mother has organised a Satharn Path (religious service) you come there.' I said 'ok I will come' When I went there, there wasn't anyone else. There was only his mother there and his sister was there. Neither his father was there, I said here he invite us, at that time the old lady 'sit down'. When it was 11 o clock a car came. There was rare a lot of cars in India, to come in cars. One lady, my friend, his father, and four people. Then we found out he got married. His wedding had already happened in a village near Namasher. He never mentioned it so they bring his wife back had a ceremony.
So at your wedding what arrangements did you make for food, mattae (sweets) and those sorts of things?
We hadn't made any accept a few bottles, beer, and whiskey.
So you just had a party at a local pub or.
No. Nothing like that, no honeymoon.
What about something at home?
A few friends (14.10), simple. I used to believe in very simple. At the time, there wasn't any facilities. There was a problem to find a space a room. I never believed in this sort of thing.
Did you have to pay for the hall at Frederick Birds?
I don't know my father-in-law arranged it
When were your children born?
My daughter was born in 1965, 1967 my son, my youngest she came very late in 1974. They all went to Stoke Park School. They are all successful. My son is in Australia. He did computer science from Warwick University and somewhere in the Evening Telegraph his picture used to come. He was the best apprentice in GEC. He did his apprenticeship in GEC. He was best every year, 3 - 4 years. He did his degree at Warwick University and now he is in Australia. My youngest daughter is very successful, she did 5 'A' levels and then she did a degree at Kings College. She came first class; she got an award for something a prize in Kings College. She did her Masters from Warwick. She did Economics and she got a 1st there. Then she worked in the Foreign office here in London, and then she went to Brussels, she worked as an Economist. Last year she went to Princeton University. In America she did a Masters in something like Public Administration, it was a special project. She came first there as well. Now she works for the United Nations.
Done very well, you must be very proud of your children.
14.13
When I was studying whole day and in the evening we used to go for a late show, matinee show. We used go normally; it used to start 11.00pm. We used to walk from house to theatre for last show, especially on Saturday night and sleep late.
So you had a habit of watching films in India?
Oh yes I watched quite a lot of films in India. When we came here I go Sundays, used to be in two places King William Street and Ritz and Savoy Radford Road, that closed it used to be nice and good pictures.
Any memorable stories?
What sort of story. A lot of my class fellows from college-university came and settled in London. I used to go to see them every fortnight or once a month. I used to catch the last train; it used to come 2am here and used to walk at that time. Can't afford taxi, used to walk from there to Tennessee Road or Hasting Road.
One night I was walking here, Hillfields King William Street, one policeman stopped me and said 'are you alright?' I said 'yes I'm alright' 'you haven't lost your way?' I said 'no' he said 'what are you doing at this time?' I said I've come from London 2 'o' clock train' 'you'll find your way?' I said 'yes'. That was the policemen.
Do you think it was unusual for people walking around at that time?
At that time there wasn't any feeling of any danger, quite a lot of times I walked from the station, home to Hastings Road. When I got married that stopped, reduced, priorities changed. Once a month, then twice a year, reduced altogether.
Did you go to the cinema with your wife?
Yes.
Did she enjoy watching films?
She watches television, Zee TV and Alfa all the time. Where you are born up, brought up to 19 years old that always stays with in your blood all your life. I still remember the trees where we used to take the buffalo where after school. Father used to say take the buffalo and get, take them and the mango trees, there still standing there, where we used to play. Although they are no longer there I still look for them when I go there. I go every year now. You still feel the same where you are brought up. I still Hoshiarpur remember everything. Mahalpur quite a big school, good results it is latest players of football.
14.18
Do you miss it or are you at home here in Coventry?
We are at home now we can't do anything, it's gone now.
Your 4-5 years have turned 50 years.
It looks strange there now. No body is there. No teachers, everyone has gone away. You still feel still when you dream something you dream there.
Its childhood.
India has changed, people have changed.