Interviewee: Donald (Don) Ewart
FORMER LORD MAYOR OF COVENTRY
I was born in Cloughrea, in the district of Mullingrass, in the County of Armagh. I was born on 11 Apr 1922. I haven't got a real memory of Armagh because we moved away when I was very young, I think I was only about 2 or 3 years of age. But my memories mostly of Ireland are where we grew up in the Glens of Antrim, Ballycastle. We had the best of both worlds. We were country and we were seaside as well. I was a moderate swimmer. I think it is a fallacy that everyone who is brought up beside the sea is a good swimmer. It's not really true. It's like everything else about a motor mechanic always has a car that's falling to bits and a painter always has a house that needs painting. So I think it's the same for those brought up by the sea. They don't make much use of it as people paying an awful lot of money to do so. But, yes, I swam and I enjoyed it.
It was only primary school. There was no secondary school in those days unless you had the money to pay for it. My schooling finished at 14 years old. I did various jobs, working in shop-boy. The Anglo-American Oil Company was another job I had, in their sidings at the railway, and then at 16 years old I went to Belfast to the shipyard. It was during the war years and it was quite busy, hectic time. I was working with the aircraft in Shortland Harland, the aircraft factory. I was in the press shop. If you were a Roman Catholic everyone let you know you were and that they knew you were as well, but it wasn't quite as bad at that time because it was full employment and it wasn't as tense, wasn't as polarised as it is now.
How old when left Northern Ireland?
I left Northern Ireland when I was 26 years old, in 1948.
So you left a long time before the current troubles broke out?
Yes, but I was in contact with Northern Ireland politics at that time. In fact I fought a Parliamentary seat over there in 1964. This trouble was brewing then, as the civil rights marches, in fact, if some concessions had been made, we would not have seen the 30 years of tragedy that we have seen.
What was it like in those years?
During war years and for few years after the war when there was still full employment it was the political balance was quite even. The Labour Party, which I was a member of, was winning seats quite regularly but as soon as unemployment started rearing its head and, of course, the old problem arose again, that Catholics always went first, and then it became emotive and, of course, the civil rights, which were something just accepted as a matter of fact over here, they were still struggling with in the 60s. Gives you some idea of how one sided the governance of Northern Ireland was in those days. Institutional violence which is just as bad as the other violence.
Did you see violence?
I didn't witness any killings or bombings. I was certainly in Belfast on the night it was bombed by the Germans. Because there were no defences, didn't expect Belfast to be within their radius.
After Northern Ireland?
I continued with local politics here in Coventry and eventually became a councillor. I became a councillor in 1976, about that date. There's always an excuse when you get to my age if you forget a year or so. I hadn't intended to go into public life in that way, I was very much involved in the running of the party machine. There was a seat vacant in the old Godiva seat, which no longer exists in Coventry. I fought the by-election there and when that seat disappeared in the redistribution in 1980 I became a Councillor for Wyken, for which I been a representative since. I was re-elected last year, until 2003. I'm afraid if I'm still alive in 2003 I'll have a rain check on that.
When you first left Ireland where did you go?
I went to London. I found a job in Surrey, just outside London. It was a residential job with a Tuberculosis Hospital. I was working there. I worked there for about 18 months, and then moved into London and worked for Crosse and Blackwells. They make sauces and custards.
Why did you come to Coventry?
I eventually ended up working as a Local Government Officer, working in housing, in Basildon. I was first of all in Elstree and Boreham Wood, which was a satellite for LCC overspill housing, and I started working for them in their Housing Department. Accommodation was very difficult at that time and we had an opportunity to get a house, house went with the job. So, I applied for it in Basildon New Town. The new town was being built at Basildon and I moved from there to Coventry to their Housing Dept, and I worked there until 1967.
What did your job involve?
Housing Welfare Officer.
Was it a tough job?
Depends how you define tough. It was tough in so far as there was an awful lot of people homeless and in need of housing and the housing waiting list was very long. So, I had a lot of sympathy for those who were waiting for a house and living in one room. Whole families in one room, quite overcrowded. Course I'd experienced that in London when I'd first got married myself so I knew exactly what that was like. If you have first hand information you have a lot more sympathy for them because your sympathy is directed to the very problem that they have but there was nothing you could do about except just carry on trying to get things better. And certainly that's one of the reasons that certain housing estates in Coventry are being criticised. But at the time they had to be built it was something that had to be done in a hurry and there wasn't a lot of materials around to do anything else other than build them concrete confines which are now housing that are not very popular.
What did people think of the new estates?
Of course they were over the moon when you brought someone for a house that was like getting the pools for them. Of course now they don't want to move into those areas. High-rise flats that were built in the Hillfields area - there was a massive slum clearance there of old houses that were going back to Dickens' days, where you had earthen floors and what have you. They were old courts, and closes, and the ringroad was being built, and it necessitated the whole slum clearance. The people living in those central areas wanted to remain there, so they opted to go back, so most of those flats when they were completed were reoccupied by people who had formerly lived there, so there was problems experiencing now with high-rise flats were not the problems then. They're a new dimension.
What was other people reaction to them as they must have been like skyscrapers?
They were. They formed part of my ward when I first went on the City Council, the old Godiva ward. So I had some experience of the early problems that were beginning to rear then when I first came on the council. One of the big differences that I find when I come to discuss housing, and housing problems, and housing welfare, as it was when I worked at it, to what it is now, is the massive social one parent problem which wasn't as prevalent as it is now. If you'd got one or two one parent families that was about it, but now its the other way round.
Did it still have its stigma?
I wasn't really referring to it as a stigma, I was referring to it as a problem it throws up. We have five kids of our own and it's not something I would have cared to have done on my own. Certainly was a joint effort, and it needed a joint effort ,and that was one of the reasons why they became a social problem.
In the sixties was one of the housing problems overcrowding?
Yes, in the sixties the housing waiting lists were horrendous. There were jobs being created in the city and people were moving in, as jobs were dropping away in other areas. In the north of Ireland ,for example, there were an awful lot of people directed over by the Ministry of Labour and, being part of the United Kingdom, they were just the same as if they had lived in Newcastle or the north of England
What were the major industries in Coventry?
Well it was engineering, manufacturing. Car, there were several car firms, and there were all the accessories. So, yes manufacturing was the main work creator.
Was the look of Coventry changed after the Blitz?
Of course, suffered severely in Blitz and it had to be virtually rebuilt. It lost its old medieval buildings, which was rather sad, because it was a rather famous city in those days, and there are still bits of it yet, and the City Council in conjunction with other tourist bodies are doing their best to try and make those available for visitors.
How have you seen Coventry change?
I didn't really know the old Coventry, not coming until 1960, so most of the changes were well underway by then. The City Centre had been completed virtually, so I didn't have an opportunity of comparing, not coming here before that.
Are the changes recently for the better?
Well, Coventry being, as we said earlier, being severely blitzed, and as a result it had to be virtually re-built in the City Centre, so that was got underway quite quickly after the war was over, and by 1960s, in the middle of the 60s and certainly into the 70s, that city centre became dated, and it had to and it was competing with city centres that were being developed within just a matter of just 2- 3 years, so we had to look at regenerating the city centre, and I think that's work been well under way to try and create a new lively city centre.
Skydome, and then of course you have the Millennium Walk, which will hopefully be completed in a couple of years time, which opens the whole city from the Cathedral Square, which is probably an example of Medieval Coventry being exposed. That was the first cathedral built over a thousand years ago. It will become the centre of it and then down to the Motor Museum and into Lady Herbert's Garden, which is now becoming a peace garden, work has already started there, and of course English Heritage have allowed the Swanswell Gate to be opened for the first time since the early days in Coventry people will be able to walk through that gate, which they haven't been doing for nearly a thousand years.
But the Old Hippodrome will be going?
Yeah, well, it only old in so far as it has memories for people.
Where did you first live in Coventry?
We've always lived in Wyken.
Would it have been a suburb?
It hasn't been a lot of building, it's been in-filling building more than anything else. I suppose the development out towards the motorway, towards the M6, that development, and up Woodway Lane ,and that's probably the most development we've seen here, but most more or less complete by the time we came to live here.
Did you always live in this house?
No, we lived in Hipswell Highway first, and then in Farren Road. When we first came here, of course, a council house went with the job for twelve months, so we had an opportunity to look around. We went to Farren Road in 1960, and we lived there for 25 years, then we lived here in this bungalow.
Did you have five kids here?
Two were born in Coventry. Three boys and two girls. None of them here at all. They've all found jobs elsewhere. They went to John Fisher, Cardinal Wiseman and Bablake. The 11 plus was around so two of them went there, and St Peter and Paul's.
How did the schools compare?
St John Fisher was an excellent school, and so was St Peter and Paul's, so I think it would be hard. I would say both of them were excellent schools. John Fisher's, by the time Bernard started in it, was about no more than about 10 years old, maybe slightly less. He went there in 1960, when we came here. So, John Fisher's was probably built middle 50's or early 50's.
Was there a church at John Fisher?
No, when we got married we thought we were never going to be in parish that had a church, there were always masses in halls until John Fisher's Church was finally built, and I have to do a bit of quick mental arithmetic because it was 25 years there, the other year. So we're talking about 1974. One of them was baptised in John Fisher School, when the masses were being held there, and Carmel was over in St Patrick's because we were all St Patrick's in those early days, no John Fisher. It was out of St Patrick's that John Fisher was created. St Patrick's was divided. It had a church in Glennon Rise and it's in Deedmore Road now. When we first came here there used to be a Guildhouse at the bottom of Hipswell Highway, where the fire station is now, Binley Fire Station. We went to mass there and then, when we moved to Farren Road, we went to John Fisher's to mass and, then Fatherr Tarbuck ,when he built Peter and Paul's school, he had a mass centre there, and we went there for quite a considerable time to as well, until the church was built, and when the church was built we started going to it, because we felt it was nice to at long last go to a parish church, instead of hall. Having gone so many years without one we thought it was very nice, very good.
How was money raised to build church?
It always amazes me. There was very little pressure put on anybody. Fr Tarbuck was the parish priest for the inception of John Fisher Parish he never pressurised anybody in fact he found it very difficult to talk about money but he always managed to raise the stakes every time it was needed. The money seemed to come without any great pressure. It always amazed me how everyone was able to respond and if he announced at the end of one financial year that we needed to up the collection that always appeared to happen. The result was that he had it paid off in next to no time. In fact he was generous because he loaned money to Cardinal Wiseman School.
Cardinal Wiseman School?
I've been a Governor of Cardinal Wiseman School for certainly since the 70s and I've been Vice-Chairman for a few years. I was governor there when there were three schools there. Remember there was a Girls Grammar, a Boys and Girls Secondary Modern so it was an amalgamation of three schools really.
Did you pass an exam to get into grammar school?
I presume the 11 plus would have been in. It was after the 11 plus was done away with that the grammar came I it became comprehensive all the three Catholic schools became comprehensive. Yeah 2 girls went there and Anthony but Bernard and Donal went to Bablake because they were on the 11plus.
Did they mind going to Bablake?
No, no, it was there were others around them that were going as well.
Did you have many dealings with the Nuns?
Yes, I, yes, being a governor, I met them on two fronts as a governor and as a parent, of course. I found them very able and they were great role models.
Were they strict?
Yes, that was probably one of the reasons that the school was to the forefront of employers. It was well known if you applied for a job and that you put on your CV that you went to Cardinal Wiseman School you were almost certain to get an interview at least. That was probably down to what you loosely refer to as being strict.
Amalgamation?
Well my thoughts there was a lot of controversy at the time and a lot of people felt aggrieved by it particularly former pupils who but we had to view it as a governing body it as an overall education facility for the whole of the catholic population in the north eats of the city. If we had of maintained it as a girls school only then the boys would have suffered and they were entitled to a catholic education as well as the girls and after all they were coming from the same families they were brothers ad sisters so we felt from that point of view the amalgamation was a correct way to go. Certainly there was a lot of opposition. A lot of nastiness as well. Fr Tarbuck was very heavily criticised and abused by some factions.
Are there any Nuns there now?
No I don't think so. They still have the premises they rent it out.
Has religion been an important part of your life here?
I suppose it has. Like a lot of Irish families we the church was important
People say it was a great meeting place?
It was. The basis of most of the parishes were Irish the numbers most of those who were working within the parishes and happened to day to day work in the parish I don't mean priestly jobs but the other work such as cleaning the church doing collections on a Sunday those sorts of jobs were nearly all Irish people. Most of the priests were for that matter.
There was a strong sense of community?
Yes I think that's why the Irish community stayed together they were helpful to each other in that sense.
Did you used to go out?
There were several social points that you could go the Finbarrs, the Kerrymans or St Brendan's as its proper name was the 4 P's and then there was the Four Masters.
Where?
Four Masters didn't have premises of their own but at weekends on a Friday Saturday Sunday they had dances and a get together in the upstairs of the Biggin Hall on the Binley Road. They had a football team and the Four Masters really was Donegal based. The Four Masters of course referring to the Four Scholars of Donegal. I suppose we were a very close knit crowd there. We all knew each other. It was very enjoyable and that was for a number of years and then premises became available in Earlsdon and they moved to them and that's where it more or less folded up from there because they were raided by the police over an technicality and they lost their licence for 12 months which virtually spelt the end of it but the 4 Masters club as a football team still exists.
Did you play football and hurling here?
Not over here. I played hurling when I first came to London but by the time I got to Coventry I had decided that age had already started to take its toll.
Did your children play?
No. They were involved in the sports in this country but not Gaelic because they had no opportunity. That was one thing that was lacking that it was not in the schools if it had been in the catholic schools which was a great pity but a lot of them started playing it with clubs but a few that was mainly those who didn't go away to university. Yes I think Donal, my second eldest lad, would have been keen to play Gaelic football had he had the opportunity.
Did any do Irish Dancing?
Yes they did. The two girls were heavily involved in that. They went to the Kildare School first and then to Marion Turley.
Were there many people here from Northern Ireland?
Not really. I didn't really meet many people from the north of Ireland. I met some yes but the biggest numbers were from the Republic
Did that bother you?
No really I have always regarded myself as Irish and Ireland was Ireland from the centre to the sea.
How did you meet your wife?
We met in Belfast and we knew each other there before we came to England. I came to England before Mary. Mary went to the Isle of Man. She probably thought the prospects were better there. Well we hadn't seen each other for I don't know how long it was certainly a year anyway if not longer. I went to a dance one night and I can't remember where it was. Tottenham Court Road that's right because you came down the stairs. As I came down the stairs the first person I seen. I took you round to the tube station that night. I left you round and you gave me your phone number, which I wrote on the back of a fag packet, which I dispensed with before without seeing. I wasted my next week's wages on a permutations of telephone numbers which never worked. So I don't know how these code breakers work in the Secret Service, I would never have qualified for a job. We met then in Edgware Road shopping. She was coming out of Sainsbury's and this time we stuck. We were married in June 1954. I think it's quite interesting getting married because we could have quite easily ended up in America. As I said accommodation was at a premium in London you just couldn't get it. When I first came we were sleeping eight to a room in some of the lodging houses. It was absolutely horrendous and if you wanted to get married to find a one roomed flat there were plenty of one roomed flats you could go into on your own but they wouldn't allow you go in as a married couple because they were always well, I don't know for what reason. Well I don't know the logic behind it but that was the way most of those who owned the property were very keen to have people who were single. I think they were worried in case kids would come and overcrowding would happen and things like that. I think that was basically their reason for it but we I got very friendly with a man. I was living in Lambeth at the time and I was in the parish in Southwark it was a Cathedral but the Cathedral was bombed so the masses were in the Amigo hall. This man asked me to do collection one Sunday. I remember him telling me as well that if anybody puts a penny in the plate give it back to them. These big Irish guys who were working on the building sites there was no way I was going to get into a contest with them about what they should put in the collection or not. But anyway we were quite friendly and I happened to tell him that we were anxious to get married but we couldn't find anywhere to live and I was toying with the idea of going to America. At least they weren't bombed so there'd be some accommodation. Mary's sister had gone around that time. What happened was that he said I think I've found you a basement flat. And he did. We got married, we got that basement flat and done it up a bit. It was so old it wasn't true. We did our best with it. We were very fortunate in so far we were only in it about six months when there was a school at the back and they wanted to extend it so all that was compulsory purchased and we were all rehoused into accommodation out in the satellite towns that London county Council were building out towards Watford. We had a one bedroomed flat there because Bernard wasn't born. We had no kids but he was on the way. So that 's how we came to be housed. I think when you probably if you wanted to move in this interview to the present time and ICARG and why we needed this Irish resource committee probably has some bearing on that those early days. We were fortunate that we were taken out of that system and we started to move forward into what one would regard as a normal life. One could live in normality. It's not normal living on top of one another in eight to a room and five to a room or six to a room as most of these were. A lot of them never married because they never got the opportunity to marry or they had nowhere to live if they did. So when we have this debate among the Irish community those who feel offended because we refer to people Irish as having problems we actually bury our heads in the sand and not recognise that they are there and that maybe is because we have become remote from it in so far as we have moved to suburbia and we haven't seen the results of those early years because there now those people who are now in their 70s and living in dire straits somewhere. A lot of them even who were never in the system probably don't get a proper pension or anything because of the way in which they operated in false names to avoid the income tax and what have you. Penny wise, pound foolish.
How did you become Lord Mayor
System used in Coventry is that the next senior person becomes Lord Mayor and I got it on seniority. I was the second Irish born Lord Mayor, Dave Cairns was the first.
And the first Northern Irish Lord Mayor?
Yes I was the first Northern Irish Lord Mayor but that's if you wish to recognise the division, which I don't.
Highlights of year?
There were several highlights. I used my year in office to promote care in the community, which is very much what ICARG is about. I always thought that carers were given a raw deal nobody recognised their worth and in fact there was no way in which the system social services any system would have worked if it hadn't been for the voluntary input. Currently at the moment as we speak the value of carers if you want to put a monetary value on it is £31 billion. That's what they're saving the system. Quite a lot of money. I gave them the opportunity, a platform for them. Coventry became the first city recognised by the National Carers Association to be Coventry Listens to Carers and I created that Carers Forum which is now well to the fore and if you look at any documents now produced by social services or area health carers are mentioned almost in every other line. If you look at some of the older documents prior to me being Lord Mayor they were hardly ever mentioned. I am pleased at that point and it gave all these organisations, umbrella organisations those who are Cinderella organisations in some respects that are small and are doing a massive job give them an opportunity to be highlighted and people now know about them, in the city anyway. I think that was one of the single most important things I managed as a Lord Mayor. Of course always I tried to promote the city then abroad in various areas. I went to several countries and tried to promote as well as understanding but to build commercial links.
Where did you go?
I went to Russia, Czech, Hungary, Germany, Bulgaria, Jamaica to try and build an understanding between the black community which was growing in Coventry which was to some degree were suffering the same as the Irish were. They certainly weren't being recognised.
Did you enjoy civic occasions?
The civic occasions. We had several visits from the Royal Family and they were and lots of head of states
Who was your favourite?
Princess Diana. I had the pleasure of meeting her on three occasions. She was very easy to get on with; very easy to talk to and then so again was Princess Margaret. I found her exactly the same in spite of all that was said about her how difficult she was.
Were you saddened to hear of Princess Diana's death?
Yes, I always felt it was an awful waste. She was doing the things that I was keen that when I set out as Lord Mayor to promote people who were doing a voluntary job and recognising that they were actually there because lots of people didn't want praise but if at least people recognised that they were there they might well contribute to it in some way or other even if it wasn't by their own by giving some help, at least financial. But if you didn't know about it didn't know it exists then you probably wouldn't be in, know to help.
When were you Lord Mayor?
1992-1993. Runs from May to May. It's quite a ceremony. The speech was very much on care and care in the community. Everyone was there. My sister came over from America. Mary's brother was there. We have medals, a replica of the Lord Mayor's medallions. We wear that at civic functions if you're invited.
Have you seen the Irish Community change?
I'm rather sad that the Irish community now is not throwing up people to take over from those of us now who are in public life. Obviously, it's going to be second generation because my generation are a dying breed and the economy is so buoyant in Ireland at the moment now that nobody is coming over. So first generation are now almost extinct or soon will be. I hope the community as it becomes more integrated into society and because we're the same colour as the indigenous population there will be less and less apart from the names because if your name's Murphy you're not going to be able to deny your ancestry. But, certainly I hope some of them will come forward to take our place in public life.
Is there a lack of focal point for the community or is the church still fulfilling that role?
I think the Church actually at the moment isn't defining Irish. It's running social events as a parish community and probably that's a good thing. If look at make up of parish population it's a lot second and third generation Irish but they're not identifying as Irish because they don't see the need to do it. That is and we're probably going to lose our culture. We brought with us an Irish culture and we maintained here, the first generation Irish, and to some degree the second generation Irish because they have the second generation we actually encouraged our two girls to do Irish dancing but I don't know if they encouraging their daughters. They may well be. I don't think so. From that point of view they have integrated completely with the indigenous population and our culture will then be lost. If you get visitors from and I remember well the Bishop of Kilmore saying to me when he was over at the Irish Festival, at the opening of the Irish Festival. It was the year I was president of it. He said we put to shame the Irish at home the way in which we preserve our culture. In America they have managed to keep it going through the second and third generations but we haven't found the trick to do that here. I think it's really down to some degree to the social club like the Finbarrs to do that but they haven't catered for the second and third generation. Younger people don't want to go into an environment where it's reminicesing about their terrible past. They've resigned that to history and if we ever need it then bring it forward if it not needed on a day to day basis. I don't think that's how we really intended to be. I don't know how you can actually promote it in an acceptable way.
What do you think about new places, Careys, Irish Centre 2000?
The only thing I find about them is how Irish are they. Are they just trying make a commercial thing saying there is a market for second generation Irish by saying this is Irish when it isn't. When I was in Boston they were actually planning their St Patrick's Day March so to some degrees Irishness still exists.
How did you become President of the Irish Festival?
It suffers to each Lord Mayor. Each Lord Mayor becomes president for that year. Yes it was a very good year for the Irish Festival and they raised an awful lot of money for my charity as well.
How do you see self?
I've accepted the fact that I'm in England now and have been for major part of my life. I've never really integrated; I've never felt 100%. I've always felt the loss of having to leave my homeland. I can't really say I'm 100% settled. So I maybe my bones better not be left here. It was something when we first got married that we intended to do. In those days we had no family we were newly married we didn't realise the importance it would be by the time you have a family and grandchildren. It's not an easy option. I think what we have probably failed to do and I find it very sorry that I didn't and I had umpteen opportunities to do it and that was to buy a holiday home when property was quite cheap over there, but it's not the case anymore. But, we go home to Ireland every summer for a month. We have done since I retired from work. What we do we kick off with a week in some part of Ireland and do a bit of touring around and end up among the relatives for the other three weeks and do a tour around the relatives. They're all scattered. Some in Dublin, some in Belfast, some in Cavan, some in Longford.
Coventry Lives Oral History Project, date of birth: 11/04/22