Loses sound at a few points otherwise can clearly hear interviewee
Name: Sohan Singh Cheema
PA Number: PA2671/4/7
Ref: C2C/170805/INT/18
Interview: 17 August 2005
Date of Birth: 3 February 1937/1938
Origin: Cheema Khurd, Nurmahal, Jullundar, Punjab, India
Gender: Male
Religion: Sikh
Caste: Jat
Came to England: 1954
Came to Coventry: 1954
Language of Interview: Punjabi
Timing: 11.42-12.47
11.42
Can I have your full name and date of birth?
11.43
My name is Sohan Singh Cheema and my date of birth is 1938.
What date?
03.02.1938
What's our religion and caste?
My religion is Sikh and I am a Jat.
What was the place of your birth?
My village is Cheema Khurd. There are two Cheema's near Nurmahal- Cheema Khurd and Cheema Kla. These are Urdu words, Kla means big and Khurd means Small. Nurmahal, Jullundar, Punjab.
11.44
What was your age when you left your village?
Actually my birth is 03.02.1937.
When did you leave to come here?
I came in 1954 with my mother because before the 2nd world war my father had come here.
Which year did he come?
1937 - I was born in 1937; he came September or October 1937.
Did he come to Coventry?
Before him, actually when I met Kartar Singh Nagra twice, before the book was published, first time when I went to take the pictures they did not turn out right. The second time I took my own cameraman with me, he narrated the whole story to me.
11.45
He said that there were 11 men who left from Bombay, 4 were from Jullundar, there were 4 from Nagra Village where Kartar Singh Nagra was from, 3 people were from Cheema Khund. I wrote a date in the book. They stayed in Bombay for 2 months to get their documents ready.
11.46
From Bombay they went to Ceylon- Sri Lanka. Ceylon. From Ceylon they went to stay in a ship. Form Italy they went to France - 6 people stayed in France. 5 people including my father And Kartar Singh Nagra arrived at Victoria. Ok.
11.47
Kartar Singh Nagra's cousin was already here since 1933-1944. They then stayed with them for 3-4 days.
Which place did they stay?
London, Shepherds Bush.
In the temple?
No, not in the temple but they rented a house near the Gurudwara. My father came to Coventry because he had a friend who was working in Lahore in Railways as an architect as an overseas in 1930. He was making maps for Railway lanes. He had a retired friend who was white and Coventry was his native city, he left his address with my father and
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he said , "Babu Cheema if you come to England, come and see me." After staying a few days in London, Kartar Singh Nagra, may father and 4-5 men then came here to Coventry.
Ok, why did they come here, for work?
Frankly speaking, modern agriculture was not provided in India, bulls and camels were used for agriculture in India. My grandfather was from Cuba -Baba Kanhaiya.
11.49
He was jailed in Lahore for 5 years. He was not an active member of the 'Gadar' Party. He was just a supporter.
Supporter?
He was a supporter; my father got a government job.
In Lahore?
In Lahore, my father, actually when Bhagat Singh, Sukhdev and Rajguru were hanged in 1932 -33. In 1931 in Lahore, there was a demonstration; there was a protest that is why they were hanged. My father took part in the demonstration because his backbone was as a freedom fighter. His photo was printed in the paper.
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British government would not therefore tolerate that as a government employee was fighting against the British. He was given the sack and he came to the village Cheema Khurd. It's obvious, you know, he was working, he was wearing turla and had a stick and wore a 'Pathani' dress, like a babu. He was Karam Singh first but later his name was Babu Karam Singh Cheema, wearing a Pathani Salwar and Kurta. There was no money we were 5 brothers and 4 got separated. My father's money was tight.
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If you are a lecturer at a university, you cannot work in a factory or a foundry. Can you? He was working in Lahore; he could not work as a farmer. It was a bad time. He was someone who was like a brother to him and they were studying together in Nurmahal, he was a D.P.O at the post office, his name was Devi Dass. He said "Babu, you cannot work here, go to a foreign country". He then gave my father money for this and my father repaid the money when he came to England.
11.52
My father had support and then Shaheed Udham Singh came to him.
In London?
No, In Coventry, yes at 15 Sparkbrook Street, we had 3 houses, Babuji at number 15, Teja Singh Lithar at no. 11 and Bhagat Singh Claus's house number was 13. House numbers, 11, 13 and 15 were next to each other. I came to 15 Sparkbrook Street in 1954. In this house, Shaheed Udham Singh used to come and see him because his
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mission, it's a social political history, his mission was to make an organisation, but he did not personally want to get involved because his own mission was to shoot Sir Michael Dwyer. I suppose if you have a mission you do not want to expose yourself or tell anyone that you are going to do this and that. If you will tell someone, they might inform the government. Like my father wrote a poem "the brave man has a mission but whenever told anyone what was in his mind until he took his revenge." Bhagat Singh never told anyone, he used to say, I will do this, then he becomes vagabond e.g. I went to the pub, I have beer, I met an Irish lady etc. My father said that Bhagat Singh used to do that; he would eat someone else's chapatti's. People used to live on their own and before drinking their beer they would cook their chapatti's. When Udham Singh ate both brothers' chapattis, they started swearing at him, but he was very cool. He said, "you are from my own country, if
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I kill you no one will remember my name and people will say I killed poor people. I will do such a task that generations will remember". Then he left, so at times, he would drop a hint about his mission. In summary; he then said to Babuji and Kartar Singh Nagra the other 25-30 people living here that we should make an organisation.
11.55
Which organisation?
It was we now need to help the British against Hitler and help the union and put up posters. There was also a famine in Bengal in India. With an organisation we can organise collections, but if we do not have an organisation we cannot help. On the same date 24th December 1937; 15-16 people got together at 3 Henry Street near the new post office behind the old cathedral behind Hippodrome there's a sign left, that's Henry Street. It's all destroyed now. We all went to Charn Singh Cheema's house, his photo is also in the book, and he was renting a house.
Was this someone's house at Henry Street?
Charn Singh Cheema's. Charn Singh Cheema was sent by the 'Gadar' Party, he was young and educated at
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the Randhis College Kapurthala. He was the only one with a BA. The Desh Bhagat had sent him. Shaheed Udham Singh knew why he came and why they got together at Henry Street. They formed Indian Worker's Association. First they thought to name it as 'Gadar Party Indian National'. Then they said that this was at present, so 'Indian
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Workers Association' name was better. In 1945-46, there was Khal, which means famine, there was no rice, then the 'Indian Worker's Association' collected money and sent it to India. After a few days Udham Singh came and they asked him. 'You have formed this organisation, they why are you always absent? He said that his friend had come so he had to go to see him. He always used to pretend.
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they all worked in Country - did social work. E.g. suppose if I do not know Punjabi, Hindi, Urdu - then nobody to write their letters back home. Then Indian Workers Association wrote letters to Midlands Hospital. India was together there was no partition, Ram Singh Mohammed; we will write their letter. There is a photo published it's written on it that my father Babu Cheema was first elected 'welfare officer'. Then they wrote to all the
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Midlands's hospitals if any Indian person gets admitted in hospital, write to us at this address. When my father was not there, then the assistant or secretary need to go. Mostly my father used to go. When I came in 1954, they took me once. I was at the Technical College, Butts for two years. I was 16; I could not go to school. In 1954 I went to Northampton with my father where my father wrote a letter for him back home because my father was asked to come and see the person.
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He asked for 10 or 5 pounds. We did not have 10 pound at that time but gave him 2-4 pounds and also gave him a receipt. If he will start earning, then he will pay it back to the 'Indian Association. My father was giving money on loan on behalf of the 'Indian Workers Association' and not from his own pocket. Do you understand? They would collect 50 or 100 pounds, when people came from India my
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father will inform then about work and take them so that they can star work. In 1954, I came, and I was living in a 2-bedroom house, there were 4 of us my father, my brother, my mother and I. One night 11 people came to stay with us. My father said, "Let the beds stand upright and have the beddings on the floor". If people were new to England, until they find work both the family members will support and feed them. It does not happen nowadays. If the third one is working and forth has come then the third one will support him and feed him and if fifth one, then the fourth one will feed him and support him. There was need and my father has done lots of social work and worked with old people. People with long hair and turban were not able to get work. My job on Saturday and Sunday was to take them to a barbershop, to cut their hair. If any khalistani is listening, they will be angry with me.
12.02
Did you come here because of your father?
Yes, my sister and my brother came here a year before me. It was the crowning ceremony of Queen Elizabeth.
Jubilee?
No, Crowning It was her coronation in 1953. My sister, she is in London. She is a daughter-in-law of the owner of the Sky Lark Hotel. My uncle in 1968, he is still alive in London, he built that hotel in Jullundar.
Has your sister stayed in Coventry before?
No she got married in Coventry and boy was from London. My father and Naranjan Singh from Sky Lark used to work together at Airport in Second World War; Bagington airport was under construction because they needed the roads built up at airport. Naranjan Singh, owner of Sky Lark went to London; my father met him and said my daughter needs to get married.
12.03
After that my brother came over here in the ship. I also came in the ship. His name is S.S Maloja.
How did you come here?
I came with my mother.
In the ship?
In the ship from Bombay to Tilbury.
Yes, when you first arrived here, how did you find the surroundings and how did you find the weather?
12.03
Weather was fine. I have written in my book. I used to cry at night, remembering about my friends, thinking about my volleyball and kabaddi friends, we used to sit in front of the fire together then I got used to it.
What were your first impressions?
It was nice; I used to watch cowboy films. Whether I understand not them or not I used to see two films on Saturday and Sunday. I have not seen hard times because my father and brother were here. Other people saw hard times. After college I worked in Leamington. Then I worked on the buses. All my life I worked and then I opened my own off-licence shop at Humber Road. My life was easy. Unfortunately, when I got retired in 1998, my wife said we would live in India, for 6 months at a time and spend the other 6 months here in the UK. She said we could sell one house in India as we had 2 there, and with that money we will buy a palace, it will look like a palace where my niece got married.
12.05
I asked her "why do you need a palace?" she said, "We will stay in India from October till Vasakhi in April". I left my wife in India and came back to England and began making arranging for the palace to be made. My family had an accident in India and so I had to return there after 25 days. My one daughter was engineer like you, she had a black out and problems with her eyes, my son was driving and my wife's pelvis broke,
12.06
and now one of her arms does not work. I go to visit and then I come back, life is not the same. We wanted to rest, but the circumstances didn't allow this.
When you came to England, did you know enough English?
12.07
Very little, I left primary school in India when I was in 8th grade. I was once delivering a speech in Birmingham in 1967 in a tournament for 30-40 minutes. One old person asked me, "Sohan Singh- what degree have you got and where did you get it from?" I told him I have only done a quarter of 8th grade. I said I have been here since 14-15 years old. However my father was a patriot and he took me to I.W.A meetings. He read poems and then he taught me how to talk on stage; this is where I got the experience. Volleyball was my hobby so I participated in sports.
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I met Lal Singh Gill in I.W.D meetings. He asked if there was anyone who is a volleyball player.
There were hardly any youngsters around at the time, so we joined together. Lal Singh said, "It is winter now, we will start the game in May". Then I met Gul (?) Singh Sidhu, Ram ji Gr (?),
then we started playing volleyball at memorial park. We had 6 players. I was one of them, to
start playing Asian volleyball.
Which year was it?
In summer 1954, slowly slowly in 1961,62,63, families started to come to come to England, then youngsters started to come, them a football team was formed in Coventry and then a Kabaddi team was also formed.
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First Shaheed Udham Singh Tournament happened in Birmingham. 4 teams took part, one was from Coventry. Then in 1966 we hosted the
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next Tournament. We then founded an 'Indian Central Support Federation in 1973 to organise all sports in ENGLAND. I was elected general Secretary of that federation. After that in 1991 The World Kabaddi Federation organisation was formed, through that organisation I went to Australia, India, Pakistan, Canada and America. I have visited these places 23 times for kabaddi tours. My private tours are extra on top of that, so my hobby is sports. There is one thing, when I wrote this book, some-one said to me you did not have enough education how did
you write a book. However I had experience, I always keep a note-book
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with me, my diary for J.S Political Meetings and for sports etc. the diary helped me to be successful. Someone told me a story; that a president went to see God, the God sent him away too, but when the secretary went to see God, then God said, let him come because he must have something you know a diary. So I kept a diary, life has been successful. Anything?
Were you doing your hobby of sports in your spare time?
Yes, spare time.
Were you working full time?
Yes, full time work.
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Sometimes if there were matches on Saturday or Sunday, then we had to miss the matches because at that time the wages were very low and life was hard.
When you came here, did you get your job easily?
I had no problem; I was working at Alfred Albert, which was my first job.
Was it your first job?
Yes it was. Actually me and another boy were dong an apprenticeship. At that time there was some discrimination in the union. They were teaching us how to make machines. I was in college for two days and I
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was at work for three days, this was for under 20 yr olds. When we were employed by management people objected and asked why coloured people have been employed. Those people threatened them that they would strike. Therefore the management said that we could work as cleaners instead in the foundry. We always used to get unskilled work.
Did you then work in the foundry?
No, I worked as a cleaner; I was not strong enough to work at the foundry. I was doing cleaning and also making tea for the skilled workers twice a day.
How long did you work there?
After 2 years I started working in Lockheed in Leamington. So, they made handles there and I worked there for about 6 years. Then I went back to India in 1960 because my father and mother went back in 1959
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permanently because my father had a stroke. We thought that as the weather is hot there so sent him back. In 1960 he was very sick and his leg was amputated in LMC Christian Hospital in Ludhiana. That's a very famous hospital. Yes, it was a good hospital. My father had diabetes. My brother has a family here with young children and so he could not go to India. Therefore I went and stayed there for a year.
In Ludhiana?
I stayed in Ludhiana for 8 months with my father. Then my father came home and at Puna, there is an army camp so I took him to Puna and
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he had an artificial leg fitted. My father started to walk again and he asked me to get married.
Then my friend who was staying there in Canada visited me here in the UK, his village in India
is Hari pur near Phalor. At that time the culture was of arranged marriage. So he took me to his
village and asked me to see consider marrying his cousin. I did, and agreed to get married to
her and came back to England in 1961.
With your wife?
Yes with my wife in 1961.
Were you living in Sparkbrook Street?
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Was there till 1963. I had 2 children and my brother had 2 children. The house was too small and so I bought a house in King Edward Road. Then from Lockheed, I started working night shifts at GEC in Stoke. In 1973, from Indian official Sardar Umrao Sen came, he gave us an invitation to bring a Kabbadi team to India. Then in February 1973 I took the England Kabaddi team to India. It was the first team which went in the aeroplane by Syrian Airline. It was a team of 20 people.
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Would you please say something about the housing condition at that time in Sparkbrook Street or King Edward Road?
It was ok. When I first came there was only wood for floorboards. The
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toilet was outside and under the stairs was where they kept the coal, this was in Sparkbrook, life was hard. In 1965-66, the telephone arrived and very few people had a car. In 1954 to 1958, Anant Singh Ram had a van and Tara Singar Litar had a big car. Slowly slowly, in 1960 our people started to come and we were getting better jobs in factories. In 1954 there was only one shop owned by Anant Ram at Stoney Stanton Road, which is now a chemist shop. He used to go to London and get the goods in his van, for example dal (Asian foods) was available in London.
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Things got better in 1960. My wife came in 1961 and she started work straight away. Later I then started work in GEC, I then bought a big car and I was taking women to Wolsten, for work in the evening and picking them up at night. I was at the time doing night shifts. In 1966 people started to start their own businesses and they were doing well.
Was your mum doing all the cooking before?
Yes, from 1954-55 my mother was doing it. In 1956 my brother's wife came to England and she started cooking. Then I got married. Old
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people used to cook for themselves. But all my life I did not have to cook dal or chapattis. After my wife's accident my life has got really hard. Even when I got to India, I can't leave my wife and go anywhere. We have a business in India that is a Palace where weddings take place, and my wife is in a wheelchair.
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You said that there was discrimination at work in the early years; was there any discrimination for your social life?
In social life, sometimes, National Front and Punks would confront us and attack us in the city.
In Coventry?
Sometimes, in Coventry there were attacks. The social life for our people was to get together amongst our 4-5 houses or at a local park. Sometimes from 1954-60, also saw films once or twice a month.
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after 1960 there was an Indian Culture Society or Pakistani Culture Society. Then there were regular films. Rajmal made India League.
Did you used to go and see films?
Yes, we used to go. Then 40 people got together and bought the Ritz cinema. I was one of them. Then the Indian Culture Society was formed. I was not their leader. My work was with sports. I used to play volleyball and encourage others to play on the weekends. If I had time I would take my wife to see a film. In 1973-74 I got a grocery shop, later I had an
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Off- Licence shop. My wife was working at the shop so I started working as a bus driver.
You both worked?
Yes, both worked together and I supported the wife. The shop was not a big business. Slowly by saving money from the shop, I started buying properties. I did not become a property dealer, but I bought 5-10 houses. I am now retired and full time carer of my wife. I have a grandson and a granddaughter and my son looks after the properties. Is it stopped?
No, it's ok. When you came here, did you have any social life with white people or you only mixed with your own people?
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I had 2-3 white friends, when I was going to see films and I was standing in a queue we became friends because we were the same age. Then every Saturday and Sunday we would see a film regularly. In Lockheed, I had lots of friends. I was a Sky Blue supporter and I would buy the season ticket, I would ask my father too but it as it was cheap. I would go to the Sky Blue League at Highfield Road. When our Sky Blues reached Wembley, my youngest son who looks after my properties, his name is Harjinder Cheema, I took him with me. I have
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also written in the book, 2-3 weeks before the Wembley match there was a long queue at Highfield Road, then the office was closed and so they said they would sell the rest of the tickets the next day. I thought that I would not be able to get the ticket the next day. I phoned home and asked my son to bring a quilt and pillow and I slept at Highfield Road and there were other people doing the same too. In the morning I got 2 tickets and I went to Wembley. I have also written in the book that when the Sky Blues won I felt like I had won and I remember all the players' names.
You were a very big supporter then!
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Yes, I read a book Stanlet, no not Stanley. Manager of Manchester United said "it's my wishes that my ashes should be scattered on the ground of Man Utd''. Stanley, what was the name? He then added that "don't take my track-suit off me but instead take my skin off." So I am football mad. I never miss a football or a volleyball match.
Matches that are held at the stadium?
My son has got me a ticket for a match on the 20th. I am going to see that on Saturday.
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GPR is playing.
Yes, GPR is playing. Are you going?
No I am not going, I just know. You know your life in Punjab before and your life here, what difference do you feel and how has it affected you?
First of all Pritpal, where a man is born, a man would like to die
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at the place where he is born. I read a book a long time ago, I do not have that book anymore, Pritpal, in short I will tell you, I read that book 20 years ago, the white man went from here, he was born in Darjeeling, the books name was "motherland is my life". He stated, "I was born in India, after the partition I was about 15-16 years old, I came back here''. I have farms of tea plants and I was going there to look after them. I have now decided that I am going to India and I will not come back. I have my children and my grandchildren here but I want to die where I was born.
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Don't take me wrong, when I said to the children let's go back to India, they said no. They are born here and this is their country, but we are born in India, we want to die in India. I dream about India everyday. If you are born in Africa?
No.
No, here?
In Ludihana.
In Ludihana, ok where in Ludihana? Sorry?
(Tape missing from 12.30-33)
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What about activities? I wanted to talk to you about migration.
Ok
Do you like going back to India?
Yes, I like going back home, I go 2-3 times a year?
How about permanently?
No I can't because my family won't go back. Our culture has changed and we have to agree with the children's wishes. When we first came here the older people used to say we have come for 5 years and then
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we will go back. We came to earn money for our children. Our children will go to India for a holiday but won't live there. It's not my opinion, it's everyone's opinion. There is not even a chance of 100-1 to stay there. There are one or 2 reasons. If someone who is born in America and comes here they will go back to America and not stay here. And the same is the case for someone who is born here they will visit Canada but will decide to come back here and not stay there. 95% of our children do not want to go back to India because of the corruption situation which is very bad. Whether you are educated, if you go there you will be turned away.
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we earned money for country as NRI's, we sent money back home and developed the country but they loot the NRI's there. I use a quotation, "in India, cancer can be cured but not corruption". Is it good? There is corruption in all aspects of life, it's everywhere. When in India, I was going in my car which has Cheema Palace written on it. I was travelling to Jullundar at least 3 times a week, when I was in the process of publishing my book. I was also shopping and meeting friends etc. near Kent, not far from Sansarpur, the Police have their own cabin,
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they asked me to stop my car. So, I stopped. They asked, "Whose car is this?" I said this is my car and it's a private car which has Cheema Palace written over it. But they insisted I show the papers for the car. They asked me 3-7 questions and I showed them the papers. I also told them that I do this journey everyday. I also showed them the book that was being published and some other papers. They asked who I was going to see. I said, "I am the sub-editor for a communist newspaper, which is being published this new year." In response to this they saluted me and let me go. They are scared of the media and they said "isn't Mr Panu editor of that newspaper? I said, "Ring and ask Mr Panu". They then let me go.
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If you tell them that you know another Police Officer they will let you go. I threw a bluff, that I am from the media and I will write about them in big headlines. I am a big communist and also sub editor for 'Nava Zamana', but really Panu Sahib is the editor. They saluted me and let me go.
From the fear of the exposure?
Yes, because of exposure. The system is like that. Now there are lots of facilities. When we were born, there were no roads and there was so much dust. Now there are telephones everywhere and there is good transport. The only problem is the system and the corruption; it's like a disease. We are talking about India but there is even more corruption in Pakistan. It was in a newspaper in Punjab Times, that 2-4 years ago in sports there was corruption of 80 lakh rupees. I have the cutting of that newspaper.
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It said that the results of sports are not good. Why are the results not good? There was a photograph in the paper that the Captain, who is the Chief Minister, is brother was the general secretary of the Olympic committee for the 5th time for the Athens games. Our country's name went downhill on 3 years and there are no gold medals, why? They sacked the coach and the managers. They should have sacked the Olympic committee. Here if the results were not good the president of the F.A would resign but in India the same people are the president and secretary for the fifth time. 80 lakh rupees which were meant to go to the players the committee have misused it for themselves.
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I have also written a chapter in the book, "politics in Sport", in that chapter I have written that I was in Chandigarh with my friend Lali, he took me to a Chandigarh club to have a pint of beer. We were talking about sports. A man came up to us and started talking to us, his stomach was really big. He told us tat he is a coach to a basketball team in Candigarh. I said that your health and especially your stomach are already giving us that message. The players there are given lessons by sitting on chairs. They are not being taught practical lessons. The coach will drink alcohol at night and order them around, do
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this, do that. Where the coaches will demonstrate how to throw a Ball, and show them how to pick up weight, how to play volleyball and how to play basketball. I had written in the book that India should change their Olympic Committee. All the champions of wrestling, long jumping, high jump, at this time should go to foreign countries for training for 2-4 years so the learn practically here when they go back then they should train those children of 12-14 years then those children should take part in Olympics. There is no structure there, there is no honesty.
There is no superstructure?
Yes
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Can we talk about the IWA?
Yes
Were you a member of the IWA?
Yes, I am still a member.
Would you please say something about your participation and how did it start?
In Indian Workers Association, when I came in 54, then the IWA, sent a deputation, there was a world organisation formed named, named
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International Perpetuator Committee for peace and sports. There were world festivals, in 1957, I went to Moscow. Frankly speaking, I was a very active member of IWA from 54- 58. After that I got involved in sports. I was attending meetings, conferences and I worked in the union and I was also a steward. But after 1960 I was not active
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member because I could not work on 2 wings. My father was active member. I was working for the family and I was also going or sports on the weekends. You cannot work or two stages. In IWA my work was not as fast and strong as it was on sports.
Would you like to stop?
No
You were an active member from 1954?
Till 60 yes.
What did you used to do?
Those branches will celebrate 15th August and 26th January and
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Organise meetings to celebrate Independence Day, attend meetings with this leaders who were coming from India and Pakistan especially India. After 1957, coming back from Moscow, we started a Bhangra Cub, with young people from Leamington, Southall and Coventry. Kundan Singh Chancal from Leamington. Surinder Sandhu, who came from Delhi University he taught us Bhangra in Moscow, in 1957 from India. We stayed in Moscow for 14 days and ten we formed a club. Then on the IWA stage we used to perform Bhangra.
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There used to be union meetings. IWA was playing an important role when there were strikes. E.g. there was a bakery strike.
Mother's Pride Bakery?
Mother's Pride strike was famous, A.L Dore in 1971-72 led strike, and Ajmer knows IWA members were active. Sometimes because of a racist attack, we used to demonstrate against. Under William Wilson's leadership one immigration
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bill was passed. We did protest against it in London and mobilise all the branches. I was taking active role in the union we were supporting our people.
The tape about to finish yet?
Have you met Comrade Ajmer?
(Tape finished)